Assignment #5: Immigration Debate/Mock Trial - engine of souls

Date: Feb 12, 2008

Assignment #5: Immigration Debate/Mock Trial

Date: Feb 12, 2008

one of the jury members ^^

Date: Feb 12, 2008

i'd like to be one of the lawyers

Date: Feb 12, 2008

i'll be a jury member

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I'll be a witness

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I'm goining to be a Lawyer.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I'll be a witness. I would like to be on the offensive side of the case, and my reason would be because how *alot* of Portuguese people (a particular character) would be very interesting to change the law since in New Bedford there is alot of views on it.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I want to defend the current Immigration Laws that are in place today.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

the laws are fine as they are.
however what is the actual debate on?

is it on the actual fed/states laws?
or on the procedure of immigration control?

Date: Feb 13, 2008

i'm a witness, but don't realy have a side yet.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Witness:
For strict goverment and illegal immigration laws.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I want to defend the current immigration laws

Date: Feb 13, 2008

A Jury Member.... idea

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Blaine wrote:

the laws are fine as they are.
however what is the actual debate on?

is it on the actual fed/states laws?
or on the procedure of immigration control?

The debate is basically on immigrants.... hence, and I quote:

Trial Introduction: Immigration is one of the most serious issues facing American society
today. The issues of freedom, equality, justice, rights, diversity, power, identity, authority,
community and tolerance are all raised by the presence in American society of illegal immigrants
(or undocumented workers). This mock trial seeks to provide students with a structured forum
for many diverse and opposing arguments. It also seeks to explain complex issues by examining
their impact on real people. Students will participate as lawyers, witnesses and jury members..

...so.... :|

Date: Feb 13, 2008

brittni ckeck out this url

good info
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/bg2034.cfm

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I'll be a lawyer advocating changes in the laws regarding immigration and citizenship.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

which way do you want to change it?

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I would like to be a witness who is in favor of the existing immigration laws.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

that last one is asking Zach.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

i am a lawyer and will be defending the current immigration laws

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Id like to be an immigrant. i want to change the standing laws and make it easier to get visas and work permits

Date: Feb 13, 2008

sorrrrrry, i forgot to post with my name

Date: Feb 13, 2008

how do you want to change that?

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I will be a WITNESS, and these are my characters:

CHARECTERS STANCE

1. U.S. Citizen: furious For stricter rules on immigration

2. Greek immigrant: biggrin For less strict rules

3. U.S. Citizen: blankstare Keep the rules the same

Date: Feb 13, 2008

March 6, 2007: Federal authorities launched a massive raid on a South End manufacturing plant detaining between 300 and 350 illegal immigrants and charging the company's owner and three managers with helping many of the workers obtain false documentation to live in the United States.

If anyone wanted to use the date to look up maybe in the Government logs, or maybe any other national news archive websites, orrrrrr maybe dig up a really good leaked government document about the raid itself.

Alot of state policemen actually knew about a week or two before the raid started. I know this because my buddies dad told us he was there to help out with the Immigration officers that morning and they had planned it ahead of time.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Ricky wrote:

March 6, 2007: Federal authorities launched a massive raid on a South End manufacturing plant detaining between 300 and 350 illegal immigrants and charging the company's owner and three managers with helping many of the workers obtain false documentation to live in the United States.

If anyone wanted to use the date to look up maybe in the Government logs, or maybe any other national news archive websites, orrrrrr maybe dig up a really good leaked government document about the raid itself.

Alot of state policemen actually knew about a week or two before the raid started. I know this because my buddies dad told us he was there to help out with the Immigration officers that morning and they had planned it ahead of time.

THey kind of also had some under cover so they planned this months before or a year when one of the worker complained and help the police with it

Date: Feb 13, 2008

David wrote:

I will be a WITNESS, and these are my characters:
CHARACTERS                 STANCE
1. U.S. Citizen:               For stricter rules on immigration
2. Greek immigrant:        For less strict rules
3. U.S. Citizen:               Keep the rules the same

CORRECTION:

3. U.S. Citizen Very sever strict rules

Date: Feb 13, 2008

http://www.facsnet.org/tools/nbgs/a_thru_h/e/ecnimmigr.php3

404 not found!!!!

Date: Feb 13, 2008

i prefer to be a witness for the change of immigration laws to suit immigrants that need to be in america

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Ricky wrote:

orrrrrr maybe dig up a really good leaked government document about the raid itself.

will anon deliever?

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Witness:
For stricter Illegal Immigration laws.

Citizen who failed to get hired, because an Illegal was hired over him.

A new state law designed to punish employers of illegal immigrants may be severely limited thanks to a deal proponents say they struck with the business lobby.

The law allows a complaint to be filed with the Department of Labor and Workforce Development to initiate an investigation into an employer suspected of knowingly employing an illegal immigrant. If the investigation finds clear and convincing evidence of employing illegal immigrants, a business license can be suspended or revoked.

Company owner, outraged by another company owner, exploiting the system.

The owners of a Newport News commercial fishing company have been charged with employing more than 100 illegal immigrants over the past four years.

The U.S. Attorneys Office said in a court filing Thursday that it is seeking nearly $7 million in penalties from the Peabody Corp., which operates eight trawlers used mostly for scalloping.

According to federal charges, company president William F. Peabody and vice president Yvonne M. Peabody knowingly employed 126 undocumented workers and disregarded warnings about the illegal activity from the U.S. Coast Guard and the Internal Revenue Service.

Angry Americans and Immigrants taking Social Security Benefits.

For each year of work under the Social Security System, immigrants realize higher benefits than U.S. born, even when their earnings are identical in all years the immigrant has been in the U.S.. Two features of the social security benefit calculation are responsible: the social security benefit formula transfers benefits toward those with low lifetime covered earnings, and all years an immigrant spends outside the US are treated as years of zero income

For Zach on Immigrants and Social Security. http://www.nber.org/papers/w6478

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Meyer Brown wrote:

http://www.facsnet.org/tools/nbgs/a_thru_h/e/ecnimmigr.php3

404 not found!!!!

OH NOES!!!!11

BTW; The immigration raid in New Bedford is probably an ideal point to use in your cases, lawyers... I say that because 1) It's local, 2) You can get actual views on people who were affected in that raid, 3) It's definitely widely documented since it's the "biggest immigration bust"

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I believe we should be tougher with illegal immigrants who refuse to integrate into or try to manipulate the immigration system. However, I also believe that we should have a new system which would make it easier for them to become documented.

For instance, I think we should have a sort of national ID system (and database) to identify everyone who is here legally. Those who are here illegally would be required to either apply to be given a visa and have their name added to the national database or go home.

However, I think we should be tougher on illegal immigration regarding (willful) employment of illegal immigrants and the policy that everyone born here is automatically a US citizen (among other things). For instance, right now illegal immigrants can cross the border, give birth to a child in the US, and that child will be a US citizen. I don't think that's fair. I believe that a child's parents should legally be inside the country for them to gain US citizenship. If the parents aren't here legally, they either need to, again, apply to register their name in the database (which would help to keep track of what they're doing) or take their children and go back to their original country.

Obviously, there are exceptions and grey areas, but this post is long enough. That's some of my basic arguments.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

http://www.infowars.com/articles/immigration/co_raided_accused_of_hiring_illegals.htm

Just digged that up.

Also: Real people commenting on the story (http://digg.com/politics/Military_Contractor_Raided_For_Employing_Illegals) if you'd like to see other possibilities (since there is apparently) and good ideas for views.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Anonymous wrote:

http://www.infowars.com/articles/immigration/co_raided_accused_of_hiring_illegals.htm

Just digged that up.

Also: Real people commenting on the story (http://digg.com/politics/Military_Contractor_Raided_For_Employing_Illegals) if you'd like to see other possibilities (since there is apparently) and good ideas for views.

Ah crap, forgot to put my name in. It's mine.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

..and more in a months time of news:

http://news.google.com/archivesearch?q=immigration+raid+%22boston%22&scoring=n&hl=en&ned=us&sa=N&sugg=d&as_ldate=3/2007&as_hdate=3/2007&lnav=hist2

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Zack wrote:

I believe we should be tougher with illegal immigrants who refuse to integrate into or try to manipulate the immigration system. However, I also believe that we should have a new system which would make it easier for them to become documented.

For instance, I think we should have a sort of national ID system (and database) to identify everyone who is here legally. Those who are here illegally would be required to either apply to be given a visa and have their name added to the national database or go home.

However, I think we should be tougher on illegal immigration regarding (willful) employment of illegal immigrants and the policy that everyone born here is automatically a US citizen (among other things). For instance, right now illegal immigrants can cross the border, give birth to a child in the US, and that child will be a US citizen. I don't think that's fair. I believe that a child's parents should legally be inside the country for them to gain US citizenship. If the parents aren't here legally, they either need to, again, apply to register their name in the database (which would help to keep track of what they're doing) or take their children and go back to their original country.

Obviously, there are exceptions and grey areas, but this post is long enough. That's some of my basic arguments.

um.. thats a good idea

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Zack wrote:
For instance, I think we should have a sort of national ID system (and database) to identify everyone who is here legally. Those who are here illegally would be required to either apply to be given a visa and have their name added to the national database or go home.

If they are here illegally, how we find them to make them apply for said visa? I think youre forgetting about the real issue, which is tracking them as they enter and doing something before they find a good "hiding spot"

Date: Feb 13, 2008

I'll be a jury member I guess... since i have no idea what is going on.

Date: Feb 13, 2008

Meyer Brown wrote:

Zack wrote:
For instance, I think we should have a sort of national ID system (and database) to identify everyone who is here legally. Those who are here illegally would be required to either apply to be given a visa and have their name added to the national database or go home.

If they are here illegally, how we find them to make them apply for said visa? I think youre forgetting about the real issue, which is tracking them as they enter and doing something before they find a good "hiding spot"

Meyer got a good point how will u know if they are comming in most mexico's sneek in

Date: Feb 14, 2008

Well, that's why Meyer and I are supposed to work together on the prosecution.

Besides, I came up with that in about five minutes. It's not like it was deep critical thinking. But that's the basic idea I've come up with (so far).

Date: Feb 14, 2008

My basic idea, and i hope that Zach agree's, is to try and develop a system in which we can eliminate the need for any "illegal" immigration at all. If we can come up with a system that allows for immigrants to not be fearful of the goverment, and assists them in becoming functional, legitimate parts of American society , then I think we will be a bit better off.

Of course, this is much easier said then done, but I believe that this platform shows a bit more optimism, and in the end will benefit all peoples involved.

Now Zach and I just need to put on our thinking caps.

Date: Feb 14, 2008

i suppose i will be part of the jury.

Date: Feb 14, 2008

Zack wrote:
For instance, I think we should have a sort of national ID system (and database) to identify everyone who is here legally. Those who are here illegally would be required to either apply to be given a visa and have their name added to the national database or go home.

If they are here illegally, how we find them to make them apply for said visa? I think youre forgetting about the real issue, which is tracking them as they enter and doing something before they find a good "hiding spot"

but by doing this you will spending more money which means the average middle class man will have to pay more taxes.

Date: Feb 14, 2008

This is a pretty good case and as a jury I'm not sure which way I would go with this right now. confused

Date: Feb 14, 2008

THat was me up there saying that.....

Date: Feb 14, 2008

actually that was mine.
but anyways im a jury member.
i dont kno exactly what side i reside at the moment

Date: Feb 14, 2008

yeah, i don't know which side becouse i have something in both side so you guys need to work hard to get me into eighter side, i know some facts about each side i need more to evalutate

xD

Date: Feb 14, 2008

Meyer Brown wrote:

My basic idea, and i hope that Zach agree's, is to try and develop a system in which we can eliminate the need for any "illegal" immigration at all. If we can come up with a system that allows for immigrants to not be fearful of the goverment, and assists them in becoming functional, legitimate parts of American society , then I think we will be a bit better off.

Of course, this is much easier said then done, but I believe that this platform shows a bit more optimism, and in the end will benefit all peoples involved.

Now Zach and I just need to put on our thinking caps.

I agree that we need to find some way to do that, but I think a large part of our problem is American culture itself. We need to:

A) Bring factories back to the US so that the taxes and jobs in these businesses are brought back. This is one way of stimulating the economy constantly rather than the spikes that occur at times like Christmas.

B) Make background checks on legal status mandatory for anyone applying for a job or trying to rent/buy a home. In addition, we need severe penalties for people knowingly giving support to illegal immigrants by giving them places to stay and earn money.

C) Drastically improve public transportation. If America doesn't have a system of quickly and easily getting across the country with public transportation, demand for oil is just going to get worse and worse and right now that's killing us.

D) Raise tax rates on the wealthy. This is more of a personal opinion, but I think that celebrities and Hollywood just makes way too much profit and doesn't given enough back.

The problem with my idea is that a lot of it involves idealism (which is already part of the problem with our plan) and giving up convenience. In a nation where we pride ourselves on individual freedom above all else, giving up convenience is an almost insurmountable obstacle.

Class is almost over, so I'll write more about it later.

Date: Feb 14, 2008

The post above this one is mine. I was in too much of a hurry and forgot to change the name from anon.